As a gender dysphoric Catholic who's still working on figuring out what to do with gender and has been grappling with this for two years now-- thank you so much for this. As a lesbian I've loved all of your writing and it comforted me when I was afraid there was no place for me in the Church, and I've been searching for similar thoughts on gender identity--there's so, so little of it compared to the amount of side b writing on sexual orientation (which, given the amount of side b writing on sexual orientation, is saying something...). Before I converted I used they/them pronouns and was considering T, top surgery, etc.... now I'm back in the closet and have no idea what's right. I hope these sorts of conversations are able to bloom and grow in the light of Christ. I have Christian and trans friends dealing with similar dilemmas and while I'm often able to point them towards resources for sexual orientation it's harder to do so for gender. If you want to get in contact with me or them I'd love to have more in-depth conversation about this.
As far as the saints go-- I get a lot out of the stories of Saint Marina the Monk, who concealed her sex to join a monastic order as a man, and Saint Joan of Arc, as a woman who was persecuted for crossdressing. Even "just" as a butch woman I tend to get judged by Catholic communities (and lavishly complimented whenever I cave to social pressure and/or Florida heat and wear a dress/skirt instead of a suit, lol--even when the dress/skirt is more revealing than the suit!) and it's comforting to know that there have been saints who, at the very least, rejected that social pressure.
Also, I don't think you mentioned this, but I think that a lot of the drama over names is kind of strange from a Christian/Catholic perspective-- it's weird to me to see Christians getting offended and passionate about people's "biological names" (yes, I have actually heard that phrasing) of the names given at birth by parents being their only real names, given how much of the Bible and Christian history involves people taking on new names and the deep symbolic power of that!
Thank you so much for this. I'm sorry it's so hard to find good guidance--a light in the wilderness. I may in fact be in touch later for the more in-depth conversations you are offering, which I really appreciate. Also, you are not the first person to reply to this post with love for Marina the Monk!
Eve, I love your writing. With that said, while I understand your concern for gender-questioning children and the fear they may have of their parents (which is a serious issue), the solution here cannot possibly be what is already happening at many (mostly public, but some private) schools. As a parent who tries so hard to accompany my children but who knows that at some point I won't be their go-to person 100% of the time (hello adolescence!), it is crazy to think that they can be counseled to seek pretty big, life changing actions without me even knowing about it. Whether that's being put on birth control or seeking an abortion or adopting a new identity... this is big stuff. Again, I hope I have laid the foundation for my children to come to me, but as a former youth worker and teacher, I know kids with the most awesome parents sometimes just don't. I know of kids who had begun to be referred to by their chosen name and used different bathrooms and a whole range of measures at school without their parents ever knowing. This is insane. When shit hits the fan, and my child develops a blood clot due to being on the pill (I have a history of embolisms so hormonal stuff is out of question), is the school going to be in the hospital with my kid? If the pandemic has shown us anything, it's that at the end of the day, parents are the ones left to pick up the pieces. If God forbid there is another pandemic, as a teacher I am not expected to go shelter with any of my students or care for any of my students. When shit hits the fan, I'm responsible for my own kids and no other teacher is going to come to my house to take care of them for me. So while I understand your very real concern, the answer here cannot possibly be the parental alienation going on at public schools. As a young youth worker and teacher I spent a lot of time with teens and had this illusion that as the cool grown up they came to with problems, I was doing some good, but do have some serious regrets. I now try really hard to be a bridge between kids and parents, not the cool adult who knows better than their prudish parents. Again, prudence in all things. I'm not saying if a kid even mentions gender discomfort I should out them, but we have to be so careful here. At the end of the day, I'm not the one picking up the pieces.
Hello! I appreciate this comment, and I agree that wherever possible, parents should be brought into the conversation. If the archdiocesan policies typically said something like, "Teachers and school staff should encourage students to share their questions and beliefs with their parents, if this is safe for the student," I would think that's wise and good. Even something like, "Teachers and school staff should notify parents of any change in how the student wishes to be identified, unless there are concerns for the student's well-being if this action is taken," would be imho counterproductive and really damaging to students' trust, but I would understand where it's coming from. But so many of these policies don't even acknowledge that students may not be safe at home if their parents discover that they're gay or questioning their gender. The policies basically (imho) treat lgbt students as threats, almost like a fifth column undermining Catholicism from within.
(The policies also often act like everything is a crisis. A kid asking to be called Jackie instead of Jack is not making a medical decision! Maybe it's better to let some of that stuff just be a thing kids can try out in a safe, non-permanent environment, instead of forcing them to introduce it to their families, where their decisions can have much longer-lasting consequences.)
The other day, I was having dinner with a recent college graduate who was reminiscing about her Catholic high school. She mentioned that some of her queer friends had made contingency plans in case they were outed to their parents and kicked out of their homes. That school could follow all these diocesan policies and never do a daggone thing to show these scared, angry students that they are loved and cherished by God, you know?
I’m not trans (or Catholic for that matter) but vis-a-vis canon law there was one case decided on by the Roman Rota in the 70s with regards to a women who wanted to annul her marriage to her spouse who had recently come out as trans (not necessarily exactly in those terms - the language used for the document is a little outdated given it was from the 70s), and they basically decided that what we’d call social translation (wearing clothes associated with the other sex etc.) was fine but that the marriage couldn’t be annulled cus the sex remained the same. I’ve almost certain explained this badly, so I’d recommend reading the original document itself [https://www.scribd.com/document/413710488/RomanRota-TransvestitesTranssexualsAndMarriage-19750414#from_embed] and Chris Damian’s rather more thorough description of it [https://chrisdamian.substack.com/p/why-would-canon-lawyers-support-preferred]
OK, having had some time to take a look at the Holy Father's statements, it seems like he's doing four things: 1. distinguishing between caring for lgbt people and addressing philosophical or theological ideas (this is good, lol, and Pope Francis quite famously has "walked the walk" when it comes to demonstrating Christ's care for lgbt people)
2. arguing against the belief that you can "choose your gender," arguing that this belief rejects our responsibility to care for our bodies as gifts and part of Creation,
3. arguing against the belief that there is no real or important difference between men and women,
and 4. condemning international organizations for pushing a new colonialism of gender ideology--basically wealthier, Western, majority-white nations pressuring everybody else to change laws and policies concerning gender.
I basically think #2 and #3 are correct theologically, and would constrain any Catholic understanding of trans experience. (That's just my own best understanding of preexisting Catholic belief, I don't pretend to have any more insight than anybody else here.) Lots of trans people articulate and understand their experience as something very different from "choosing your gender"; similarly, many trans people believe that there are real differences between men and women, and that they are discerning a reality when they come out as trans. I will say that I don't think we're promised that it will always be obvious whether a person is a man or a woman, and we have to be willing to support people in ambiguity and uncertainty, too. I wrote about some of that stuff here https://evetushnet.substack.com/p/the-kintsugi-body
And w/r/t #4, I'm always down for beating up on the UN, lol, but I really do think if you condemn pro-lgbt pressure as "colonialism" you should seek out the voices of sexual and gender minorities within the countries you're trying to defend. Those people may not understand gender the same way a Western feminist would (neither do I!), but they are as much a representative of their country and culture as anybody else.
I hope all of that is appropriately respectful toward His Holiness, and that asking better questions can help illuminate some of the issues he's most concerned with.
If my comment is insensitive, please delete it. I honestly was not trying to “gotcha” you. I apologize if it came across like that. As a straight Catholic trying to be orthodox, I’m just so conflicted about the Trans identity. Anyways, I’ll stop talking and feel free to delete my comments.
No, no, it's my fault--I want to give your question the considered answer it deserves, and I keep not having time to do that! I need to go back and read through His Holiness's various statements to see if I am understanding him or just projecting my own ideas /o\ I hope to do that by earlyish next week. But thank you for commenting, and I do think it's a very reasonable question.
As a gender dysphoric Catholic who's still working on figuring out what to do with gender and has been grappling with this for two years now-- thank you so much for this. As a lesbian I've loved all of your writing and it comforted me when I was afraid there was no place for me in the Church, and I've been searching for similar thoughts on gender identity--there's so, so little of it compared to the amount of side b writing on sexual orientation (which, given the amount of side b writing on sexual orientation, is saying something...). Before I converted I used they/them pronouns and was considering T, top surgery, etc.... now I'm back in the closet and have no idea what's right. I hope these sorts of conversations are able to bloom and grow in the light of Christ. I have Christian and trans friends dealing with similar dilemmas and while I'm often able to point them towards resources for sexual orientation it's harder to do so for gender. If you want to get in contact with me or them I'd love to have more in-depth conversation about this.
As far as the saints go-- I get a lot out of the stories of Saint Marina the Monk, who concealed her sex to join a monastic order as a man, and Saint Joan of Arc, as a woman who was persecuted for crossdressing. Even "just" as a butch woman I tend to get judged by Catholic communities (and lavishly complimented whenever I cave to social pressure and/or Florida heat and wear a dress/skirt instead of a suit, lol--even when the dress/skirt is more revealing than the suit!) and it's comforting to know that there have been saints who, at the very least, rejected that social pressure.
Also, I don't think you mentioned this, but I think that a lot of the drama over names is kind of strange from a Christian/Catholic perspective-- it's weird to me to see Christians getting offended and passionate about people's "biological names" (yes, I have actually heard that phrasing) of the names given at birth by parents being their only real names, given how much of the Bible and Christian history involves people taking on new names and the deep symbolic power of that!
Thank you so much for this. I'm sorry it's so hard to find good guidance--a light in the wilderness. I may in fact be in touch later for the more in-depth conversations you are offering, which I really appreciate. Also, you are not the first person to reply to this post with love for Marina the Monk!
Eve, I love your writing. With that said, while I understand your concern for gender-questioning children and the fear they may have of their parents (which is a serious issue), the solution here cannot possibly be what is already happening at many (mostly public, but some private) schools. As a parent who tries so hard to accompany my children but who knows that at some point I won't be their go-to person 100% of the time (hello adolescence!), it is crazy to think that they can be counseled to seek pretty big, life changing actions without me even knowing about it. Whether that's being put on birth control or seeking an abortion or adopting a new identity... this is big stuff. Again, I hope I have laid the foundation for my children to come to me, but as a former youth worker and teacher, I know kids with the most awesome parents sometimes just don't. I know of kids who had begun to be referred to by their chosen name and used different bathrooms and a whole range of measures at school without their parents ever knowing. This is insane. When shit hits the fan, and my child develops a blood clot due to being on the pill (I have a history of embolisms so hormonal stuff is out of question), is the school going to be in the hospital with my kid? If the pandemic has shown us anything, it's that at the end of the day, parents are the ones left to pick up the pieces. If God forbid there is another pandemic, as a teacher I am not expected to go shelter with any of my students or care for any of my students. When shit hits the fan, I'm responsible for my own kids and no other teacher is going to come to my house to take care of them for me. So while I understand your very real concern, the answer here cannot possibly be the parental alienation going on at public schools. As a young youth worker and teacher I spent a lot of time with teens and had this illusion that as the cool grown up they came to with problems, I was doing some good, but do have some serious regrets. I now try really hard to be a bridge between kids and parents, not the cool adult who knows better than their prudish parents. Again, prudence in all things. I'm not saying if a kid even mentions gender discomfort I should out them, but we have to be so careful here. At the end of the day, I'm not the one picking up the pieces.
Hello! I appreciate this comment, and I agree that wherever possible, parents should be brought into the conversation. If the archdiocesan policies typically said something like, "Teachers and school staff should encourage students to share their questions and beliefs with their parents, if this is safe for the student," I would think that's wise and good. Even something like, "Teachers and school staff should notify parents of any change in how the student wishes to be identified, unless there are concerns for the student's well-being if this action is taken," would be imho counterproductive and really damaging to students' trust, but I would understand where it's coming from. But so many of these policies don't even acknowledge that students may not be safe at home if their parents discover that they're gay or questioning their gender. The policies basically (imho) treat lgbt students as threats, almost like a fifth column undermining Catholicism from within.
(The policies also often act like everything is a crisis. A kid asking to be called Jackie instead of Jack is not making a medical decision! Maybe it's better to let some of that stuff just be a thing kids can try out in a safe, non-permanent environment, instead of forcing them to introduce it to their families, where their decisions can have much longer-lasting consequences.)
The other day, I was having dinner with a recent college graduate who was reminiscing about her Catholic high school. She mentioned that some of her queer friends had made contingency plans in case they were outed to their parents and kicked out of their homes. That school could follow all these diocesan policies and never do a daggone thing to show these scared, angry students that they are loved and cherished by God, you know?
I’m not trans (or Catholic for that matter) but vis-a-vis canon law there was one case decided on by the Roman Rota in the 70s with regards to a women who wanted to annul her marriage to her spouse who had recently come out as trans (not necessarily exactly in those terms - the language used for the document is a little outdated given it was from the 70s), and they basically decided that what we’d call social translation (wearing clothes associated with the other sex etc.) was fine but that the marriage couldn’t be annulled cus the sex remained the same. I’ve almost certain explained this badly, so I’d recommend reading the original document itself [https://www.scribd.com/document/413710488/RomanRota-TransvestitesTranssexualsAndMarriage-19750414#from_embed] and Chris Damian’s rather more thorough description of it [https://chrisdamian.substack.com/p/why-would-canon-lawyers-support-preferred]
Hi Eve! I’m so grateful for your post. I’m not trans either. I just appreciate your desire to listen to others, as it seems to be in short supply these days. I’m wondering though what you think of Pope Francis’s words: https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/253845/pope-francis-gender-ideology-is-one-of-the-most-dangerous-ideological-colonizations-today Do you see your hope for better questions as not in opposition to his cautioning words? If so, please elaborate, if you wouldn’t mind. God bless!
OK, having had some time to take a look at the Holy Father's statements, it seems like he's doing four things: 1. distinguishing between caring for lgbt people and addressing philosophical or theological ideas (this is good, lol, and Pope Francis quite famously has "walked the walk" when it comes to demonstrating Christ's care for lgbt people)
2. arguing against the belief that you can "choose your gender," arguing that this belief rejects our responsibility to care for our bodies as gifts and part of Creation,
3. arguing against the belief that there is no real or important difference between men and women,
and 4. condemning international organizations for pushing a new colonialism of gender ideology--basically wealthier, Western, majority-white nations pressuring everybody else to change laws and policies concerning gender.
I basically think #2 and #3 are correct theologically, and would constrain any Catholic understanding of trans experience. (That's just my own best understanding of preexisting Catholic belief, I don't pretend to have any more insight than anybody else here.) Lots of trans people articulate and understand their experience as something very different from "choosing your gender"; similarly, many trans people believe that there are real differences between men and women, and that they are discerning a reality when they come out as trans. I will say that I don't think we're promised that it will always be obvious whether a person is a man or a woman, and we have to be willing to support people in ambiguity and uncertainty, too. I wrote about some of that stuff here https://evetushnet.substack.com/p/the-kintsugi-body
and here: https://evetushnet.substack.com/p/are-monks-men
And w/r/t #4, I'm always down for beating up on the UN, lol, but I really do think if you condemn pro-lgbt pressure as "colonialism" you should seek out the voices of sexual and gender minorities within the countries you're trying to defend. Those people may not understand gender the same way a Western feminist would (neither do I!), but they are as much a representative of their country and culture as anybody else.
I hope all of that is appropriately respectful toward His Holiness, and that asking better questions can help illuminate some of the issues he's most concerned with.
If my comment is insensitive, please delete it. I honestly was not trying to “gotcha” you. I apologize if it came across like that. As a straight Catholic trying to be orthodox, I’m just so conflicted about the Trans identity. Anyways, I’ll stop talking and feel free to delete my comments.
No, no, it's my fault--I want to give your question the considered answer it deserves, and I keep not having time to do that! I need to go back and read through His Holiness's various statements to see if I am understanding him or just projecting my own ideas /o\ I hope to do that by earlyish next week. But thank you for commenting, and I do think it's a very reasonable question.
I appreciate that! No worries. I’m in no rush, though you’re probably plenty busy. Thank you for your time.